Combat Dagger builds and Adrenaline Rush
With patch 1.12 rogues got their revamp and most of us will have a new spec by now. Being in raids most of my time, I opted for a combat dagger build with Adrenaline Rush (15/31/5).
It was not much of a question for me to take Adrenaline Rush now that I could. But I hear a lot of rogues wonder if it's really worth to take or if they should not just go only 28 points deep into the combat tree and put the remaining points elsewhere.
Is AR worth it or not?
In 5 minutes you get to spend 3000 energy, if you have no major downtimes (every downtime favors the AR though). With AR you get 15 seconds double energy or a total of 3150 energy over 5 minutes. Your overall damage through energy abilities increases by: 3150/3000 = 5%.
If you do 50% of your overall damage with backstabs thats 2,5% increase to your sustained dps.
Your dps boost through AR becomes even bigger the longer the phases are in which you don't fight but the cooldown is ticking.
There are countless examples where you get a lot more out of AR than the theoretical 2,5% damage buff.
- The typical PvP fight that you start with all cooldowns and that takes only a bunch of seconds.
- Hit and Run bosses like Firemaw, Chromaggus, Gluth or Heigan where you have large gaps within the bossfight where you can't melee, but your cooldowns will refresh.
- All fights that are shorter than multiples of the cooldown. For example killing Patchwerk takes at max 7 minutes, but I doubt any guild kills him in less than 5. That means you get to use AR 2 times in this fight and it boosts you dps by at atleast 3,7%.
And if you combine the use of AR with Blade Flurry (provided there are 2 mobs in range) or the effect of an Earthstrike trinket or Jom Gabbar, you again increase the theoretical boost.
Last but not least there's a more subtle buff to your dps. Now that Ruthlessness is not a prereq for Relentless Strikes anymore, putting 3 points into that talent looks like a waste. Take 3 points from Ruthlessness and put a 3rd point into Improved S&D instead as this is the only finisher you'll ever use in PvE and you safe 2 talent points but get the same effect: You can maintain a 100% S&D coverage with only 5 cp Slice&Dice finishers - in other words for 0 energy cost. (A 5cp S&D will hold 30 seconds now, and that's just as long as it takes you to get another 5cp with a combat dagger spec.)
The problem is to get to the first 5 combo-points though. Whatever you do... you will have a large initial gap in the S&D coverage (or many small ones) OR you have to do so many low-cp finishers that you waste 25 energy a couple of times due to Relentless Strikes not proccing. Adrenaline Rush however is the solution. Pop the first S&D after only two backstabs. With 4parts of Bonescythe that's most likely two energy ticks into the fight - otherwise you need three energy ticks. After that pop AR and spam Backstabs. Just when the S&D buff is about to run out, you can do a 5cp one already, thanks to AR, and keep it up for the rest of the nukage.
But don't think only about what damage meter will show in the end. The real big reason why you should spec AR if you go for a combat dagger build is burst damage. Be it Maexxna, C'Thun, Ouro, Huhuran, Gothik... there are plenty of situations where the key is to muster insane dps for just half a minute or so. About 3k more damage in these critical periods does help a lot!
Does it have no drawbacks at all?
Sure it has... one is aggro. Burst damage does always mean burst aggro. And when you want to make full use of AR, you need to use it early in the fight (for the reasons listed above), so you really need to be cautious with your aggro. A well timed Vanish solves all your problems in most cases though.
Then there is the problem that if you take all damage talents that make sense for dagger rogues from the combat tree, you end up with only 28 points in there. To get AR you need to spend another 2 points on talents that don't really increase your damage output. Well, I had no problem spending those. Improved Sprint is a great PvP talent that has its uses in PvE too. The same goes for Improved Kick. Endurance is nice too, especially if you also got Improved Sprint. And if you don't like these talents, buff your survivability and increase your dodge or parry rate. There are enough cleaving mobs in raid instances to make it worthwhile.
Another drawback - at least for me - is that I consider it my precious best cooldown skill I have and I don't want to waste it. Thats why I don't use it as often as I could... its really hard sometimes (for example in an instance where trash dies in a matter of seconds or when you grind easy mobs) to find a situation where it really makes sense to use it.
But the important thing is that you got a way to increase your damage output and cp generation by a large proportion once every 5 minutes which is a big help in countless situations.
Conclusion
Adrenaline Rush is not only a significant buff to your sustained damage, it's greatly increasing your flexibility and burst damage and thus might safe your life many many times. It's the best 31pt talent of all trees and a must for every combat dagger build imho.
It was not much of a question for me to take Adrenaline Rush now that I could. But I hear a lot of rogues wonder if it's really worth to take or if they should not just go only 28 points deep into the combat tree and put the remaining points elsewhere.
Is AR worth it or not?
In 5 minutes you get to spend 3000 energy, if you have no major downtimes (every downtime favors the AR though). With AR you get 15 seconds double energy or a total of 3150 energy over 5 minutes. Your overall damage through energy abilities increases by: 3150/3000 = 5%.
If you do 50% of your overall damage with backstabs thats 2,5% increase to your sustained dps.
Your dps boost through AR becomes even bigger the longer the phases are in which you don't fight but the cooldown is ticking.
There are countless examples where you get a lot more out of AR than the theoretical 2,5% damage buff.
- The typical PvP fight that you start with all cooldowns and that takes only a bunch of seconds.
- Hit and Run bosses like Firemaw, Chromaggus, Gluth or Heigan where you have large gaps within the bossfight where you can't melee, but your cooldowns will refresh.
- All fights that are shorter than multiples of the cooldown. For example killing Patchwerk takes at max 7 minutes, but I doubt any guild kills him in less than 5. That means you get to use AR 2 times in this fight and it boosts you dps by at atleast 3,7%.
And if you combine the use of AR with Blade Flurry (provided there are 2 mobs in range) or the effect of an Earthstrike trinket or Jom Gabbar, you again increase the theoretical boost.
Last but not least there's a more subtle buff to your dps. Now that Ruthlessness is not a prereq for Relentless Strikes anymore, putting 3 points into that talent looks like a waste. Take 3 points from Ruthlessness and put a 3rd point into Improved S&D instead as this is the only finisher you'll ever use in PvE and you safe 2 talent points but get the same effect: You can maintain a 100% S&D coverage with only 5 cp Slice&Dice finishers - in other words for 0 energy cost. (A 5cp S&D will hold 30 seconds now, and that's just as long as it takes you to get another 5cp with a combat dagger spec.)
The problem is to get to the first 5 combo-points though. Whatever you do... you will have a large initial gap in the S&D coverage (or many small ones) OR you have to do so many low-cp finishers that you waste 25 energy a couple of times due to Relentless Strikes not proccing. Adrenaline Rush however is the solution. Pop the first S&D after only two backstabs. With 4parts of Bonescythe that's most likely two energy ticks into the fight - otherwise you need three energy ticks. After that pop AR and spam Backstabs. Just when the S&D buff is about to run out, you can do a 5cp one already, thanks to AR, and keep it up for the rest of the nukage.
But don't think only about what damage meter will show in the end. The real big reason why you should spec AR if you go for a combat dagger build is burst damage. Be it Maexxna, C'Thun, Ouro, Huhuran, Gothik... there are plenty of situations where the key is to muster insane dps for just half a minute or so. About 3k more damage in these critical periods does help a lot!
Does it have no drawbacks at all?
Sure it has... one is aggro. Burst damage does always mean burst aggro. And when you want to make full use of AR, you need to use it early in the fight (for the reasons listed above), so you really need to be cautious with your aggro. A well timed Vanish solves all your problems in most cases though.
Then there is the problem that if you take all damage talents that make sense for dagger rogues from the combat tree, you end up with only 28 points in there. To get AR you need to spend another 2 points on talents that don't really increase your damage output. Well, I had no problem spending those. Improved Sprint is a great PvP talent that has its uses in PvE too. The same goes for Improved Kick. Endurance is nice too, especially if you also got Improved Sprint. And if you don't like these talents, buff your survivability and increase your dodge or parry rate. There are enough cleaving mobs in raid instances to make it worthwhile.
Another drawback - at least for me - is that I consider it my precious best cooldown skill I have and I don't want to waste it. Thats why I don't use it as often as I could... its really hard sometimes (for example in an instance where trash dies in a matter of seconds or when you grind easy mobs) to find a situation where it really makes sense to use it.
But the important thing is that you got a way to increase your damage output and cp generation by a large proportion once every 5 minutes which is a big help in countless situations.
Conclusion
Adrenaline Rush is not only a significant buff to your sustained damage, it's greatly increasing your flexibility and burst damage and thus might safe your life many many times. It's the best 31pt talent of all trees and a must for every combat dagger build imho.
posted by lithander at 4:37 AM
5 Comments:
why no DW spec?
"why no DW spec?"
I messed it up in the talent calculator. Fixed.
My guild has recently moved into BWL, before in MC only, AR was very clearly worth while, using it on Firelords combined with Blade Flurry etc. But now that i've moved into BWL while still topping the damage meters as 20/31/0 sword spec, I'm always looking to further optimize my damage. I have been considering CB, because of the aggro factor of AR. If i used CB every 3 mins the first 5 cp evis i got, would it be more efficient than say using a AR maybe once every 20 mins at fear of gaining aggro, or simply not having the time to give MT time to build aggro to be safe before the fight ends.
I know currently i should be using AR more often, but i find that staying alive far surpasses the damage of getting off an AR before i do die. So, although i know I'm not considering a lot of variables, would CB be more efficient in a BWL setting? Also curious of the effectiveness of Weapon Expertise in end game, is it really worth it? What's the math on Glancing damage.
Why not spec further down the combat tree and grab Combat Potency? That skill is a HUGE help, and in end-game raiding, seems absolutely nessesary.
why combat daggers ? how about combat maces witch can dish more damge and have more ability to stun lock
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